How Barbara Found Her Forever Home In The Algarve

Intro

Kathleen

Hello and welcome. I’m Kathleen Peddicord. Welcome to this episode of our Retired Overseas Podcast.

I am delighted today to have a guest, Barbara Grassey, who is joining us from a place, a point on the earth that we have long spotlighted as one of the best places in the world to live or retire overseas. And we’ve been spotlighting this part of the world for 15 years or more. And it is as lovely as ever. It is as tempting a choice as ever. It has as much to offer as ever. And so, I’m just really delighted to be able to dig in with Barbara to life in the Algarve, Portugal.

If you’re a long-time reader, you know that we love Portugal. We love especially the Algarve, for lots of reasons that we’ll talk about. So, welcome, Barbara.

Barbara

Well, thank you for having me on. This is great to get to actually put a face with a name. So, thank you, Kathie.

Kathleen

Well, great to meet you. Okay. You are right now in your home in the Algarve. Tell us exactly where you are. I think you’re near Tavira.

Barbara

I am. I’m in Santa Luzia, which is a small fishing village just to the west of Tavira. I’m about five kilometers outside of Tavira. You can actually walk in. People do it all the time and walk back.

And it’s right on. My apartment is on what they call the front. And the front is the main street of town. And then we have the Tavira channel, and then we have the barrier islands of the Ria Formosa. So, I can look out over the channel and in the summertime, not the winter, but in the summertime, I can actually see the Atlantic.

Kathleen

Oh, very nice.

What Was It Like Moving Abroad During COVID?

But let’s back up. If you wouldn’t mind, tell us, you know, let’s back up and tell us of all the times in your lifetime to move to another country, that was maybe one of the most challenging. So, how did that timing come to be?

Barbara

It really was a perfect time to move, though I didn’t know it at the time. But, you know, in the early days of Covid, and I had been planning on moving to Europe for years, for decades. I would have bucket lists and on every bucket list going back for 20, 30 years, it said move to Europe, live in Europe.

And so, when Covid hit and people were dying, we didn’t know what caused it. And it was a frightening time. And I thought to myself, I don’t want to die without living in Europe.

And so, I had been planning to make a scouting trip to come over and everything locked down, so I couldn’t do the scouting trip. I was planning that for July of 2020, and everything locked down and it was a matter of now or never, and I just made it now.

Kathleen

You were very brave. That took a lot of courage. It takes a lot of courage to make this move, period. But to make it at that time when the world was really in the midst of a crisis, but a lot of uncertainty, what was tomorrow going to look like in any given spot on the globe?

And so, you showed up. Where did you move from in the United States?

Barbara

I’d been living on the Gulf Coast of Florida.

Kathleen

Okay.

Barbara

And my landlords decided to sell their condo right in the middle of the lockdown. So, there’s some timing for you.

So, my housemate at the time moved up to a university town. I let the condo go, and I went and stayed at, my cousin has a condo, just north of Tampa. So, it was a great little spot for about six months where I could.

One, when you move, you just get rid of everything you possibly can. And for people who are thinking about living abroad, get rid of everything. Just get rid of it.

So, I moved my stuff up to my cousin’s condo and over the course of the next few months, while I was applying for my visa, I just was trying to get rid of as much as possible, and I got rid of a lot. I’m very proud.

Kathleen

So, can I ask which residency path did you pursue?

Barbara

Well, I got the D7 visa, which is passive income visa. I had turned 62 and I think I was just turning 62. So, I took early retirement. And so that was March of 2020.

And because I took early retirement, my Social Security was not as much as if I had waited. So, at that point, that was a decision I had to make because I didn’t have passive income and I needed to show passive income to get the visa.

So, here’s a decision I have to make. Do I take the money now and not get as much, right? And at that point people were dying. So, I was like, I’m gonna take the money now. Who knows what’s going to happen?

So, I have enough Social Security that it covers what’s necessary.

Kathleen

Great. So, you qualified for, it’s the D7. We refer to it as the self-sufficiency visa. Many countries offer them, and each country has its own financial requirement and other requirements.

But the country sets a minimum income that you must be able to prove through some guaranteed source. And Social Security qualifies as a guarantee because…

Barbara

Disability, that sort of thing.

Kathleen

Exactly. Or any kind of pension, a police pension, a teachers pension, so each country is different. Some countries allow you to put money into a savings account to qualify, for example.

But for Portugal, your Social Security was enough to meet their financial income requirements, which is about, it varies with the exchange rate, etc., but it’s about $1,500 a month is what we reference.

Barbara

Yeah, I mean that’s a good number to give people. It’s €870 right now. And with the fluctuations of the exchange rate, it’s about $1,100.

Kathleen

Yeah. Okay. So, $1,500 is on the high side. We try to be very conservative.

Barbara

You want to be on the high side.

Kathleen

Exactly. But still, $1,500 – $1,400, that is less, well less than the current average Social Security check.

So, when most retirees with Social Security will meet the Portugal requirement that way.

Barbara

Exactly. And you know, I cannot live on my Social Security alone. And I’m not that, like I’m kind of cheap to keep. But I do like the scotch.

So, for me, I’ve got a passive income visa which qualified me to get in, but I still work, and I work remotely with clients in the United States.

Do You Have a Car?

Kathleen

Do you have a car? Have you bought a car?

Barbara

No, I don’t have a car. I have friends with cars. It’s almost as good as having friends with boats.

But I did get an electric scooter. It’s like a little Vespa. And learning how to ride a scooter in your 60s is interesting. She says, rubbing her shoulder. Oh, I wiped out a couple of times.

Kathleen

And sometimes. Well, good thing you have that good health insurance.

Barbara

Oh, it was so funny because one time I was coming around the roundabout going to my doctor, and there was sand or maybe oil in the road and the rear wheel just kind of scooted out from underneath me and I laid it down.

And I sound tough, don’t I? I just laid the scooter down. But I got into the doctor’s office, like, can you fix, please? Like, yeah, come here.

So, it was good timing. If you’re going to fall off your scooter, do it in the parking lot of a doctor’s office.

Kathleen

Yeah, perfect, actually.

Do You Own Your Apartment or Are You Renting?

Have you bought your apartment where you’re living or are you renting?

Barbara

I’m a renter, and I don’t know if I would ever buy. I’ve been renting. I was in real estate. Let me put it this way. I was a landlord. I’ve owned houses, but I’m 68 now. I am not into fixing things.

I am no longer crawling under sinks to check the plumbing. And I like having a landlord.

This place came furnished, which was lovely because I didn’t have to bring furniture or get furniture, and it’s just worked out well for me. And my last apartment in the States was a rental.

So, once I got out of ownership, I was more than happy to let somebody else have those problems.

Kathleen

So, that’s a great perspective. And that’s the point we make. You know, buying property as an investment is one thing. And if you’re looking to build a portfolio to diversify your portfolio by buying property in other countries, that’s great.

And that is an agenda we wholeheartedly endorse. And I think makes more sense right now than ever.

But if you’re going to live somewhere, not necessarily. As you describe, being a renter leaves you freer, more flexible. If you decide you want to try out a different town or a different part of Portugal, a different neighborhood, even in the same part of Portugal, you know, you don’t have all the hassle of, well, now I’ve got to sell and then should I buy again? As soon as your lease is up, you’re free to maybe, you know, try something else on for size.

Barbara

I’m really hoping I never have to move. I’m hoping they have to cart my body out of here.

Do You Feel Like You’ve Found Your Forever Home?

Kathleen

So, that is one of my questions. Do you feel like you’re at home for good? You found your forever place?

Barbara

Yeah. And someone was asking me, like, how did you know you wanted to live here? It’s like, you feel a vibe, and I know that’s such a woo-woo type of thing.

But I met up with a lady who was thinking of moving here, and she’s been to Lisbon and Porto and, you know, all over Portugal. She’s like, I’m just not feeling it. And I said, then it’s not for you.

Because the people who get it are so happy here. And some people come and they’re not happy here, and that’s okay too. You know, like you tried, you didn’t like it. You might like France, you might like Panama. And you know, that’s why they make chocolate and vanilla. Everybody has their own.

Kathleen

Exactly. And I love that point because, you know, we talk about spreadsheet in your new life and going through all of the categories of questions and issues you need to address, and you need to do all that work and decide, you know, everything from budget to your residency path and on and on.

Are you going to buy or rent a home and all those questions, and all of that can be put down on paper. But then you show up in the place, you’ve got to put your feet on the ground there, and you’ll have an instinctive reaction as you’re describing.

And for most people, it’ll be quick, and you’ll love the place or you’ll think, why would anyone live here? I don’t get it. This doesn’t, I don’t get this at all. I don’t get it.

Barbara

Yeah, and that’s okay, because you just haven’t found your spot yet.

Kathleen

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we say pay more attention to that instinctive gut response than to… And because we’ve had people say, but it checks all my boxes, it’s where I should live.

But that’s not the same as where you are happy living, as a place that makes you happy.

Barbara

Exactly. And that’s, I mean, I’ve lived in some really great places. I mean, I spent two years out in Hawaii, which is absolutely. It would check all the boxes. It’s perfect, except you’re on a rock like 5,000 miles away from everybody.

I can jump on a plane and be back to my family in Boston in, you know, seven hours or so.

Kathleen

Right. So, you know, plus time zones.

Did You Consider Any Other Countries and Why Did You Choose Portugal?

Kathleen

Did you consider anywhere other than Portugal? How did you choose Portugal?

Barbara

My first thought, oh, if you really want to go back to when I was ten years old, it was Scotland.

So, and then I went to Scotland in 2001 and found out just how cold Scotland is. The weather is not nearly as nice as the Algarve.

Kathleen

Yeah, not nearly.

Barbara

So, then I was looking for a warm place in southern Europe, and my next spot was Italy, because my father’s parents had come from Italy.

Kathleen

So, okay, return to your roots.

Barbara

And their requirements for passive income were above what I make passively, so I was not going to qualify there.

I can probably go through the process and get citizenship by being a descendant. I probably won’t bother. It’s a process.

So, I was talking to a friend who’s a digital nomad and she had ended up in Merida, Mexico, and she said, take a look at Portugal. And so, I did, and I was like, hmm, I could do Portugal.

Kathleen

Well, for so long, right? No, sorry to interrupt you, but for so long Portugal was the undiscovered secret of Europe until recently. Now, I would say Portugal is pretty much on the radar of most Americans thinking about the idea of living or retiring to Europe.

But for a long, long time, until not too many years ago, that wasn’t the case. Americans would think of France, Italy, Ireland, even, but not Portugal.

So, that was a great recommendation.

Barbara

Yeah, she was a sharp, sharp girl, and she had been all over. She’d been a digital nomad. So, Thailand and Chile and God knows where else.

But this was just, I did not know coming here. I had no idea that it would be such a perfect fit for me.

And as it turns out, Barbara is a very common name in Portugal.

Why Did You Choose the Algarve?

Kathleen

So, how come the Algarve? Did you choose that right away?

Barbara

I chose that before I ever got here, because I knew it was the warmest spot. And this is my driver in life is I have to be warm.

Once I got here, I chose Albufeira because it was about central in the Algarve. I could go east, I could go west.

But I learned that the eastern Algarve was slightly warmer, important, and less windy. So, I started checking to the east and we went to probably like Vilamoura and Loulé, which is fun.

And I spent a month in Oiã, which is a town that’s really coming up. It’s an interesting little town, and it was a working-class town, but now they’re kind of resort to it.

They have a Mexican restaurant. Mexican restaurants become very important to you here.

And when my friend and I hit Tavira, we walked around and we just went, wow, this is it.

So, to the point where she wouldn’t sell her resort condo in Vilamoura and find a fixer-upper in Tavira, I’m like, no, do not do that.

Who Do You Think Portugal Is the Right Fit For?

Kathleen

Another question I want to ask is who do you think would be the right kind of person, if we can say that, to think about moving to Portugal?

And I think you’re the right kind of person or the person for whom this is going to work out well, and who’s going to be really happy overseas, is someone who is the things we’re describing.

You need to be a little brave. You need to be self-reliant, resourceful, persistent. You need a really positive attitude and a sense of humor.

And those things are critical for making a new life anywhere new, any new country.

But who do you think would be happiest in Portugal specifically?

Barbara

I think you need someone that’s relaxed because it’s a very relaxed atmosphere.

If you’re a Type A and you think things should be done a certain way, and this is the only way you can get these things done, I’m going to show you how to do it, you are not going to fit in here and you will be shunned.

And it’s not even subtle. I don’t even think the expat community will shun you.

Kathleen

Right? Like it’s not even the Portuguese.

Barbara

So, you have to be able to roll with the punches, be relaxed and be willing to learn new things.

It’s the type of thing where you have to be the type of person that says there’s more than one way to do something, and because they do this in a certain way doesn’t mean they do it wrong.

You have to kind of be a little bit curious and say, why do they do it this way?

Because I will guarantee there is a reason why they do a thing a certain way and the system works for them. And like, it might not work for your mindset, but it works for them. And it’s the way that they’ve had to put it together.

This country really only, you know, a functioning democracy for 50 years. It was 1974 when they had the revolution.

So, there’s a lot of holdover from the days of the dictatorship. And so, not all the systems are up and running.

I mean, you’re not going to have as many, I don’t know, we have Glovo, which is like DoorDash. So, I don’t know what people want. Like, everything you could use just comes to your door. We’ve got Amazon Spain.

You know, it’s not that tough a life, but you really have to have the attitude of you don’t know everything and you’re going to learn something.