What I Wish I Knew Before Moving To France

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Patricia

And that day trip was incredible. Something overcame me. I felt really free there. And I thought, I think I just found my new home.

So, I did that, and I found out that I had more than enough to support me for a few years. And then that was the thing that was like, okay, now, now it’s time to start planning.

But in week three, the start of week three, one night I woke up in the middle of the night and then I felt panicked because I’m like, oh, Patricia, you’re in France.

Oh, you quit your job. You don’t have an income coming in. You’re living off savings. And the French you’ve been studying for the last two years, it’s really not, you’re not really as good in French as you think you are. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Who is Patricia Brooks?

Kat

Hello. And today I am joined by Patricia Brooks, who is an expert here along with myself in France. So, Patricia, thank you so much for joining me. And tell us a little bit about your background and where you come from.

Patricia

Okay. Thank you so much for having me. As Kat said, I’m Patricia Brooks and I moved from Richmond, Virginia, and I’ve been living in the south of France, not Paris, the south of France, since 2018.

I moved here on a work break, a sabbatical that lasted three years. And then when I saw my savings start to get to a level that didn’t feel comfortable, I decided to start a business here in France. And so, now, I help people who are ready to get their minds right to make a move abroad, do exactly that.

Kat

And so, were you moving as a single person with a family, with a partner?

Patricia

I moved as a single person. So, it was something that I hadn’t had this dream all my life, but I knew that I was ready for something new and, you know, not having a partner, I just said, well, I’m going to do this on my own.

Kat

Excellent. And what put France on your radar? You said it was for a sabbatical. Was there some reason that France really spoke to you, or were you looking at many places?

Why France?

Patricia

Yeah. So, my story is that I have typically been a homebody, not a big traveler, but after the death of my mom, I lived in Virginia, and my mom lived in New Jersey. I would go visit her on my paid time off from work. And so, I had no place to go.

And so, I remember taking a trip to Quebec City, Canada, with my family when I was a child. I remember they spoke French there, and so I said, okay, well, that’s where I’m going to go on vacation this year. This was 2014.

So, I brushed off my high school and college French and took a course, you know, maybe two weeks of a course. And then I went to Quebec City saying, “Bonjour comment allez vous”. And the locals, they greeted me and they responded with, you know, with that. And, then they asked me some questions that I didn’t understand, but then they said, oh, you know, your accent was so good it fooled us, right?

And so, that really encouraged me. I thought, oh, maybe I could, maybe I could really speak French, you know, fluently. And really the idea was maybe I could live in Canada, but the winters there are too cold.

So, I decided to visit France for the first time in 2015 to see if France could be a place I could live. And I thought, yeah, I think I could live here. Yeah. And that started the journey. Yeah.

Kat

That’s incredible. So, how many visits did you make before you made that big move?

How many visits did you make before moving?

Patricia

My first time was in 2015 with a friend, a former college roommate, a university roommate. And that was an interesting trip. About nine months later, I decided to come back on my own so that I could really experience France on my own.

And so that’s when I did my first scouting trip to Toulouse. And while I was in Toulouse, I saw Perpignan in the guidebook, and I thought, I want to visit that city. So, I went there on a day trip.

And that day trip was incredible. It was a chilly day in May, drizzly, not the most beautiful day, but something overcame me. I felt really free there. And I thought, I think I just found my new home. Oh wow.

Kat

But to answer your question, how many times before, so 2015, 2016, and 2017, three times before I made the move. And did you visit different parts of the country each time or once you got to Toulouse, where you kind of focused on that region, that southern area?

Patricia

Well, so I didn’t know a whole lot about France, but I knew the bigger cities. So, my itinerary really included Toulouse.

Kat

Right, which was a nice city, but it wasn’t my city. And then that kind of day trip to Perpignan, where I fell in love, and then on to Lyon, which is another nice big city. But it didn’t speak to me.

And then I had a friend who said, oh, you should visit Annecy. And so, I went to Annecy, which is really nice.

Patricia

Oh I love Annecy.

Kat

Yeah, yeah. Not a place that I could see myself living. And I couldn’t stop thinking about Perpignan once I got to Lyon, because I was like, oh, I only had a day there.

And that’s when I went back. And so then in 2017 was a scouting trip to really kind of see Perpignan and the different neighborhoods.

Kat

Wow, that’s a great story. And it sounds like you did a great amount of due diligence as well. But also, didn’t wait forever. We’ve known people who will fall in love with a country, but then I’ll spend, you know, ten years making their trips and never pulling the trigger.

What was it that finally, you know, gave you that kick to say, all right, I’m going to make the leap?

What made you take the leap?

Patricia

Well, it’s for me, like, so, I got the idea brewing in 2014, 2015 to live in a foreign country. And I started, you know, studying or continued studying French so, that I could get here and have a good, solid base of the language.

But between, you know, 2015 and 2017, that was all I really did. I thought, oh, yeah, one day I’m going to live in France. And so, it was just more of a pipe dream than something that was real.

But I’m going to say this, and it may offend some people, but I’m going to say it, inauguration day of 2017. That was for me. That inaugural address was for me, like Patricia, you said you wanted to make this move. Now would probably be a good time.

Kat

Yeah, yeah. And you’re not the first that we’ve heard that story from on both sides of the coin. You know, whoever’s in office, somebody isn’t going to like that.

Yeah, it might be a nice excuse to take an adventure, whether it’s permanent or a four-year, you know, stint overseas. And that’s an important thing to remember is everybody has their own reasons and everybody has their own limitations.

You know, you don’t necessarily need to go into this thinking you’re going to live full-time in a new country for the rest of your life. You know, it could be a few months, a year or just for a couple years.

You know, maybe you get a year-long lease and plan to go back home. There’s different ways to do this.

Patricia

Yeah. I think you make a really good point. I think that sometimes people say, well, what if I don’t like it? And they have this desire to experience living abroad in their lifetime.

And the only way to know if it’s for you or not, right, is to take that leap. And, you know, if you need. You know, I think sometimes people really need a kick in the pants to get going.

And so whatever that kick is, you know. Whatever it is exactly, hold on to it.

Kat

Yeah. So, did you, I mean, you made this move as a single woman. Did you have friends or family back home who were kind of like, what are you doing? You know, what are you thinking? How can this make any sense? Where did this even come from? You know, you haven’t traveled that much, and it’s only been a recent pipedream, as you said. Did you get any kind of resistance from those back home?

What did your friends and family think about the move?

Patricia

I was fortunate, I was fortunate I, I had these, like my big hesitation was I was going to quit my job, right.

And then move to France without one and not work. And my parents always said, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Right? You don’t quit a job unless you have one at the ready.

So, that was the biggest hesitation I had. So, when I told my brother that, you know, I was thinking about making this move to France and he’s a world traveler. Great with languages. And when he said, oh, I think it’s a great idea, I think you’re going to really like it.

And both my parents had since died. That was kind of like permission to break from that thought that family had.

And so, I did not have resistance with family or friends. So, that was, that was one my brother said, oh yeah, I think you’ll love it. Do it.

And then my uncle Bob, who was really a family friend, when I told him about a bird and hands were two in the bush and how my mom would always say that and that I was surprised that he was supportive.

He said to me, well, you know what? I know that saying, but I prefer the expression nothing ventured, nothing gained.

And that helped me to take my foot off the brakes and put it on the accelerator fully.

And because every time that I would hear myself say that, I would, it would just replace it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Kat

That’s so nice that you had so much nice support. And from people at least your brother, who kind of knows what he’s talking about. He knows you pretty well. He’s traveled. So, that’s great that he thought that would work for you.

And that you, you didn’t have any kind of negative feelings surrounding it.

So, after you, you know, had these conversations with your family and you’re starting to really put the wheels in motion and starting to think of it as a reality, not just a dream. What kind of support did you get elsewhere? Did you hire, you know, a moving company? Did you have help from a relocation company, or did you just kind of go at it alone?

What kind of support did you get for the move?

Patricia

Well, so, I got help from a coach because for two years I’d wanted to do this thing. Then I had that kick in the pants, you know, now would be a good time, but there was still something that was keeping me stuck. And that thing was my finances.

I was afraid to look at what I’d saved up to see if it was possible. So, I hired a coach, and I didn’t realize this before I hired the coach. But I hired a coach, and she said to me, well, what’s holding you back?

And I’m like, I’m not sure I can afford it.

And she said, okay, well, your homework is to look at your finances and find out how much, you know, just one year living in France would be what they’re looking for. You know, when you apply for the visa and come back to me and tell me that.

And so, I said, okay. And so, my word’s my bond. So, I had to go ahead and look and see. Well, do I have enough or don’t I?

And the reason I hesitated to look was because, well, if I didn’t have enough, then, oh, my dream of moving abroad, that hope would be dashed.

But really, that’s irrational. Okay, so I don’t have enough. I know what I need to save to get there. Once pull back the covers.

So, I did that, and I found out that I had more than enough to support me for a few years. And then that was the thing that was like, okay, now it’s time to start planning.

Kat

This is such a great example of how so many people can assume that Europe, especially France, I think France, probably more than any other country in Europe, is beyond their reach of affordability.

So many people are concerned, I think, especially about the taxes. You know, the tax picture, it looks so different coming to Europe than it does in the U.S.

But it’s really important to understand that in the U.S. there’s federal and state taxes. You know, in Europe you’re only paying one tax. In America, taxes are added on to sales prices.

Here in Europe it’s lumped in. There’s so many different ways that people don’t realize that the tax issue is not actually as scary as it might be, especially for retirees.

Now it’s a different thing. You’re earning money, so.

Patricia

Right. Or you’re an entrepreneur.

Kat

Right, exactly. The social charges.

Patricia

Yes, exactly, the social charges will kill you.

Kat

But for a retiree, it is incredibly accessible.

What visa did you use to move to France?

Kat

So, you came and you weren’t a retiree. I’m assuming you’re here on the visitor visa.

Patricia

Visitor visa for the first three years or two and a half. That essentially just means that you are self-sufficient.

You prove that you have an income and some savings and you have the option, then, this is what makes it so appealing. You have the option to not pay the social charges and to not become tax resident, in the country for that period of time.

And things have changed a lot. The visitor visa is not as attractive as it was when I took it, so I’m sure when you took it even years before I did, that it was even more attractive.

And it’s limited to a 1 or 2 year visa. And then after that, you have to formalize, generally speaking, you have to formalize with something else.

Kat

Just to give a little bit of background on the visa. So, you came in on the visitor visa and then you changed to being an entrepreneur, is that it?

Patricia

Yeah. Profession Libérale. It’s the type that I got. And it was, you know. Okay. I’m looking at my savings. I got to figure out how I’m going to support myself because I’m not of the age, retirement age.

And that seemed like the easiest, quote unquote, easiest way to be able to earn money here.

Kat

Right. So, that’s what I did.

Patricia

And it was the scary proposition. After my first year, I thought, you know, I have this coaching certification. Why not go for the Profession Libérale after year one?

Well, I was afraid, right. I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to prove that I could support myself. And I did need a little more confidence in myself, in my abilities before I actually did that thing.

And then I applied and the Profession Libérale visa, it starts out as a one year visa where you don’t necessarily have to have a business already making money, you just need to have the business plan.

And when I went for it, I didn’t have to have my business plan approved through the French government. Now, that’s another step that you need to take.

And then after that first year, you need to show that you are earning the French minimum wage. Now, I don’t know how liberal they still are in terms of, you know, making sure that you meet that to a tee.

Fortunately, they weren’t. They gave me some leeway. They saw that I was on a trajectory to be able to do that. And then they renewed my visa.

They could have renewed it for either two years or for four years. And they gave me a full four years. And so, I was so glad because not having to, you know, apply every year again.

Kat

Right. And this year, this year, is the fourth year. So, I just went for my, visa appointment. I’m going for the ten-year resident card now.

And so, I just went to the prefecture here in Perpignan for that. And so, fingers crossed, say my prayers and yeah, keep on moving.

Patricia

My husband and I had just applied for that, the last renewal session that we had, and we did. We both got it, but we were worried, because they, again, this stuff, this residency stuff changes and it can change so quickly.

And sometimes even lawyers are unclear on what exactly the shakeout will be from a change. So, for us, it was, we were concerned that we wouldn’t meet. Well, that my husband wouldn’t meet the language requirements, because that’s a new thing.

Was there a language requirement with your professional visa?

Kat

For that Profession Libérale visa, I think within, I don’t know, I don’t know what the timeframe was that you needed to have a certain level. I don’t remember what that level was. I think I had already made it to that level, but.

Oh, a funny story from this last meeting at the prefecture, the level for the ten-year card is B2, is B1.

Excuse me, is B1. So, the woman behind the window, she was looking and I had tested and I was at a B2 level, and the woman behind the window is looking and it says, but it says B1 here, and B2 is higher than B1.

Yeah, but I made it, I more than made it. And she had to talk to, you know, her colleague and then, then it was okay. So, I thought that was, that was funny.

Patricia

Yeah. So, these things are changing in real time. And I think, Patricia, you got in kind of right under the wire, which my husband and I did as well. We moved also in 2018, and we kind of got in right before they started making a lot of these visa changes.

The requirement for language went up since we’ve been here. So, what used to be a B2 is now B1 or vice versa. I can never remember which direction they go. B1, B2. B1, B2.

And you know, things like cultural tests are becoming more part of the integration program. So, it isn’t necessarily the same today as it was when Patricia or I applied.

But it goes to show that there’s no sense in waiting, you know, if you know, something makes sense for you sitting on the sidelines or, you know, being on the fence about something, it will only get harder.

There is a trajectory that the world is going in in terms of immigration, and it’s not great for people that want to go around the world.

So, if you qualify for something, of course, don’t just, you know, go shooting from the hip and getting anything that you think might make sense for you. That’s not the right tactic either.

But, if you if you know you’re interested in France, if you’re maybe not ready to pull the trigger this year, or if you’re waiting for retirement or you’re waiting for a certain amount of savings, it can be worth speaking to an immigration attorney while you’re thinking about that and starting your process.

Maybe earlier than you might think, because you don’t know what it’ll be next year, you know?

So, in Portugal, the golden visa within a matter of years was completely just shredded. And so, every person applying within every few months was getting a different story, a different level of criteria to meet of requirements to meet.

And so, that really speaks to the fact that when there’s an opportunity that makes sense for you, should just take it. You know, don’t sit for too long, at least.

Patricia

Yes. And I agree 100%. And to that point, once I get my ten-year card, as soon as I get it, I’m applying for citizenship.

Kat

Same. Yeah. We can’t wait to get that EU passport.

Okay, so let’s, roll back a little bit into just what it was like when you first arrived.

So, we’ve talked about the big picture, your kind of long arc of living down there and the move, prior to making the move, the scouting, but did you ever spend longer than a week or two there before you made the real move?

Did you spend a lot of time in France before moving?

Patricia

No, both my scouting trips were two weeks long.

Kat

Okay. And that felt like it was enough for you to get a feel for the place. You didn’t feel like, you know, you were living a tourist lifestyle anymore.

Patricia

Well, I rented an Airbnb, right? So, I was cooking for myself and trying to make it as much like I was living here as possible.

I think that if I had more time, I would have been better off, you know, coming for a month or even longer. But I knew, I knew in my heart that, I knew in my heart that Perpignan was the city, at least for that first year.

And, that France was for me. Right. I just, in my heart I knew.

So, whether the city would be the city for as long as I was here or not, that didn’t matter. I knew that I needed to be in France. And so, two weeks was fine for me.

Kat

Okay. Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. And your story speaks volumes to me because that’s exactly how I have fallen in love with places.

So, there’s, you know, it’s not necessarily about a list of pros and cons. You just feel something, you know, you get to a place and you fall in love. Like when you go on a good first date and you’re like, I think this is going to go somewhere.

And so, you know, it may sound a little illogical or a little spontaneous.

Honestly, more stories I’ve heard are like yours than the other side where it’s like, I did spreadsheets and I did all these comparisons, and then I figured it out.

No, it’s that you just wound up somewhere. It could have been on a vacation. On a day trip even. One couple I know, they took a wrong turn into a town, a village they didn’t mean to go to in Greece. Got lunch there. Fell in love and have been living there for ten years now.

So, it really that spontaneity. I think there’s a lot of room for that. And while you do need to, you know, think about the practicalities, the chemistry, there’s something to be said for that.

Patricia

Yes, and I am, in my former life, I was a project manager, corporate project manager, which means that I’m in my head a lot and that logic matters, right?

And so, I spent the last three years writing a book about why I had to get to France because it was so illogical. So outside the realm of something I would do, you know, what was the thing that was waiting for me here?

And I came to some conclusions on that, but as you say, yes, sometimes it’s not the logical thing. Sometimes you’ve got to follow your heart.

Kat

Yeah, exactly. Lead with the heart, not the head.

All right, so you land. You’ve only spent a couple weeks here at a time. What was your first impression? You know, was it was anything kind of shocking? Did you have any kind of immediate, like, panic, or did you really just feel in your element as soon as you arrived?

What was your first impression of France?

Patricia

So, I arrived, and I was on cloud nine. I had done this thing that really in the back of my mind, I wasn’t so sure I could do. Moved abroad alone.

And I got here and the first two weeks were wonderful.

There was a hiccup with the apartment that I had signed a year lease for that had a horrible smell of sewer gas, but I managed to work to get out of that lease, you know, pretty easily.

So, the first two weeks were wonderful. I’d go out and I go explore Perpignan. I was like, oh yeah, this is my life.

But in week three, the start of week three, one night I woke up in the middle of the night and my bedroom was pitch black because it had the metal blinds that came down.

The moment of panic

Patricia

So, it’s pitch black. I woke up, I wasn’t really sure where I was, and then I felt panicked because I’m like, oh, Patricia, you’re in France.

Oh, you quit your job. You don’t have an income coming in. You’re living off savings. And the French you’ve been studying for the last two years, it’s really not, you’re not really as good in French as you think you are, right?

And you know no one. Right. So, all of these things came flooding in, and I had this. It wasn’t a doubt about my being here, but it was the logic thing.

Again, I was like, this doesn’t make sense. What are you doing? You know, you had a pretty good life in the U.S. and now did you make this big error?

So, that was something I had to contend with. And the thing that kind of saved me because I had gone through coach training, I had some skills. I knew how to work through feelings like that and how to swat away the doubt.

But for the first 6 or 7 months, those feelings came up, and I knew that I had to. I just had to continue to switch the thought.

And also had to find something to occupy my days, because I went from working a full-time job to living in France with, you know, so many hours to just think about the mistake I just made.

And so, I started a podcast, and I think that that experience really helped me to create the business that I chose to create, which is a program to help people to navigate the mindset because, yes, you can take care of all the logistical things and get to a place and then feel like, oh, wait a minute, who am I now that I’m here?

Or was this the right thing to do? And so, having a coach or somebody to talk those things through, can help smooth the way.

Kat

Yeah. That’s excellent advice. And that moment of panic, again, every single expat, whatever their walk of life, age, you know, whether they’re a spouse or a single or whatever, every single person who moves overseas has had that moment of panic. And it often comes in the middle of the night.

What would you have done differently?

Kat

Let’s keep it broad right now and let’s say, looking back, is there anything that you would have done differently, anything you wish you had known before you made the leap?

Patricia

Yes. Okay. What would I have done differently?

I think, one of the things that I didn’t do was I didn’t ship anything initially.

Right. Because in my mind, oh, shipping was going to be so expensive I wouldn’t be able to afford it in my mind again, going back to the thing that tripped me up in the beginning was, oh, will I be able to afford living in France?

I didn’t want to look at my finances. And so, I said, oh no, I’m not going to ship anything. I downsized as much as I could.

And then what happened was it was about a week before I was going to get on a plane and move here, and I still had some things, you know, things, memorabilia from my past life, from my mom and dad’s house that I didn’t know what to do with.

So, I rented storage and I said, oh, I’m going to do this just for one year. One year turned into two. The price went up, and then I’m like, okay, I have to do something with this thing, with this stuff that’s in storage, what am I going to do?

And so, I wound up shipping later because I could afford it.

Kat

Yeah, right. It was affordable. Right. And I had gotten rid of.

Patricia

So, I could have brought so much more or could have saved so many more things. And, so, I would have looked into shipping, at the beginning to see whether or not it was viable and not just assume that it was.

And then I would have shipped, I would have downsized a slightly differently. Right? And then not had the cost of the storage unit.

Kat

Right. Because that and then and then. Okay. Because I didn’t ship in the first year, you know what I got?

Patricia

That it’s not duty free, right?

Kat

Yeah. Import taxes. Yeah.

Patricia

Yeah. Okay. So, excellent advice. And this, I mean, the shipping question, what to keep, what to take with you, what to leave back, what to throw out.

It’s such a huge, massive and very personal, you know, subjective thing. Everybody’s different.

I am a total hoarder. I’m a packrat in terms of, like, you know, I still own college posters that were on my wall in my dorm.

Kat

Wow. You know, I’m never going to get them back up on my wall, but I can’t get, for some reason, I can’t get rid of them.

Patricia

So, it is so specific. And I think, especially if you’re in a couple, it can be a much a bigger point of tension because one person wants to keep things, the other person wants to get rid of things.

If my husband had his way, we would be living in a glass and steel box, you know, minimalist all the way with no knickknack’s on the shelves.

Unfortunately for him, I am a packrat. So, there’s knickknacks on all the shelves. Opposites attract.

Kat

Exactly. So, it is something to consider and definitely do your research on beforehand.

And, yeah, I mean, I’m glad, honestly, that you had that storage unit, because I think you’d be more sad if you just gotten rid of the things and assumed that they needed to be trashed.

I still have things in my grandmother’s basement. My husband and I, we had a storage unit in Panama before we. When we had moved to Paris, you know, and it took us another few years to empty up that storage unit.

So, it is what it is. And I do think, these are just some of the unforeseen costs that sometimes you have to just swallow.

You know, sometimes it sucks. You learn things the hard way. You do the best you can to avoid the pitfalls.

But there are some things you can only learn through experience.

Patricia

Yeah, yeah. And I think I always say nothing is wasted. Okay, so it costs me more. But now I can help.

Kat

I can help somebody out. Now you have the advice to give, right.

Patricia

Whether people take it or not. Exactly, that’s on them.

What advice would you give someone thinking about moving overseas?

Kat

What would you say to somebody who’s watching this video and thinking about moving overseas? Maybe to France, maybe somewhere else in the world? And they are, you know, hemming and hawing about it as you were for a little bit. Maybe it’s a pipe dream. Maybe they just think they can’t do it for some reason, what would you say to them?

Patricia

I would say to them, I think one of the things that makes it easier to make the decision is knowing your why.

Why would you turn your life upside down so completely to live this new kind of life in France and not just the why of okay, well, the food is healthier, or the health care system is affordable or I won’t need a car.

But what going deeper than that, asking why that is so important to you and how that will make you have the experiences that you truly want to have.

Because once you get to a deeper why, then it becomes clearer and a motivator to do the things that you need to do.

Because a lot of times we have a reason. But that reason is really surface level and getting to that, you know, really what is at the crux of your wanting to move abroad is so very important.

Kat

Yeah, no, that’s excellent advice and it goes both ways. I think knowing your dealbreakers, you know, knowing those things that you absolutely must have and those things that you absolutely don’t want anymore, could be shoveling snow in winter.

Patricia

You know. Yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, we’re going to move to Canada basically. You’re like I like the French culture but Canada climate, not for me. Yeah absolutely.

Kat

Yeah. All right. Excellent. Well thank you so much, Patricia.

Patricia

Thank you, Patricia, for joining us today. And best of luck, and we’ll speak with you again soon.

Kat

All right, you take care. Thanks.