How This American Started Over In Southern Italy

What Led You to Move Abroad?

Kat

Hello, I’m Kat Kalashian for Live and Invest Overseas. Today I am joined by Su Guillory. Is that right? Guillory?

Su Guillory

You got it. You nailed it!

Kat

Su Guillory, who’s originally from the U.S. but has been living in the south of Italy, in the Calabria region, for how long now?

Su Guillory

Over three years. Three and a half.

Kat

Okay, so tell us a little bit about your background before you moved here and what brought all this about?

Su Guillory

The short answer is an empty nest and a divorce.

As many of us do who go through divorce, I was looking for what’s next in my life. When I was married, we’d always traveled together, so I timidly began to do some solo travel, primarily to Italy, and discovered I really loved both solo travel and Italy.

As my son was in high school, I started thinking, what do I want? Because I was in San Diego. It was beautiful, but it was very expensive. Thinking long term, I thought, this is not really where I want to spend the rest of my life.

So I started traveling a lot more to Italy and really thinking about where I would want to live. As everyone knows, Italy has so many beautiful places that it’s just a matter of making a decision.

Literally, during the pandemic I made a spreadsheet with what I wanted at the time: 30,000 people or fewer, near the sea, within an hour of an airport. So I had a very specific list of places.

I landed on the southern region and started looking at the bigger cities. Then when travel opened up during the pandemic, I started visiting, and I just didn’t find what I was looking for for a while.

I went to Tropea, which, if you know anything about Calabria, you’ve probably heard of because it’s the touristy town. Scilla, another little seaside town. Reggio Calabria, which is the biggest city in the area. Nothing really felt right.

Then, on a rainy November day, somebody had suggested I try San Rocco, which is at the bottom of the boot of Italy. It was raining. It was cold. And there was something about this town that I was like, “Oh, okay. This is different.”

So I spent just a few days there, but I made some contacts. I decided, yeah, I’ll try.

So I found a rental, and in 2023, after I packed my son off and shipped him to his life in Florida, I packed too, hopped on a plane, came here, settled in, and I’ve never looked back.

Kat

Amazing. That’s such a good story. I love that so much because I also have that connection with places. I often talk about it like a romance you’d have with a person.

You feel that chemistry with a place the way that you do with a person. A place can check every box off a list and still not speak to you the same way. On the other hand, you can get to a place under the worst of circumstances. Everything goes wrong in your adventure there, but you still feel a connection to the place.

I don’t know what it is. Past lives maybe, or something, but there’s a chemistry that people have with places. I always tell people, don’t ignore that gut instinct. Listen to your inner person.

Su Guillory

Exactly. Because all I could do was look online. I traveled through all these towns in Google Maps like I knew the town, but what I didn’t understand or couldn’t feel was the soul.

I could see if there were 500 stairs to get to the only grocery store. So there’s a lot you can discover obsessing over Google Maps.

Kat

Yeah, you’ve got to see it in person.

All right, so you did a lot of Italy research and scouting before you made this permanent move. But did you look anywhere other than Italy? I know you said you did some solo travel there and it really spoke to you, but did any other country really come into it for you, or any other region of the world, or was this it, one and done?

Why Italy and Not Somewhere Else?

Su Guillory

It’s funny because I have a degree in French. My family is from Louisiana, which has a French culture and history.

If you were to ask me 20 years ago if I was ever going to move to another country, I would have said it would have to be France.

But having mastered the language more or less in French, I started studying Italian. When I visited for the first time, there was this welcoming with my little baby Italian efforts that I had never really felt in France.

Kat

No, they don’t love the baby efforts quite as much as the southern cultures do.

Su Guillory

Yeah. It was just like, oh, I focused on France and French my whole life, but here’s this other country nearby, and that’s interesting too.

It has enough of that European culture that it wasn’t like Asia, where it’s completely different. It’s familiar enough. The food I knew.

So really, no, I never thought about another place.

It’s funny to me that it ended up being Italy, which I had zero connection to. Everyone here is like, “Oh, you’re Italian.”

And I’m like, “I’m not.”

They’re like, “Your grandparents were.”

And I’m like, “No. I’m French.”

They’re just like, “Huh… and you’re moving here.”

Kat

I honestly get that question frequently because I’m based in Paris. People ask, “What are you doing here? Why would you move here?” They’re so stunned by it. It’s a funny thing.

What Sparked the Idea to Move Abroad?

Kat

I guess it was kind of just a new chapter in life. You were coming to this transition phase and looking for something new. But how did this idea ever even get planted to leave the country? It seems like such an extreme step. Most people come to a life transition or become empty nesters, and they might downsize or get a condo or something. It seems like such a big idea. So how did that even come into your head?

Su Guillory

Well, when I was married the first time, we talked about that. After we graduated, we wanted to spend a year or two traveling to different countries and living somewhere for three months, you know, and letting them out.

When that plan kind of got destroyed, I started thinking, oh, I can still do it.

But I really thought about it. I really don’t want to live out of a suitcase for two years. So I thought, okay, of all these places that we had talked about going, where would I want to be?

I think I probably added Italy to the list, and this was maybe before I’d even been. I was like, Italy. Why do I need to live out of a suitcase if I could just plant roots?

I think also, in America, I never really felt like I had strong roots. I grew up in Arkansas. I spent five years in Orlando and then 12 years in San Diego, so I never really felt like I had strong roots.

There was nowhere that I could imagine I wanted to live in the U.S., so that sorted itself out on its own.

Kat

That’s a really fun story. It’s so nice to have that flexibility and freedom of thought to follow this kind of whim of an idea.

But did you ever have any sudden fears or reservations along this journey, whether before you made the move or after you made the move? Did you ever have a moment of panic like, “What am I doing? How did I get down this road?”

Did You Ever Have Doubts or Moments of Panic Along the Way?

Su Guillory

Panic, yes. Regrets, no. Never.

Even when things got… we can get to the “after I got here” stories. But yeah, of course. Is this the right thing?

I just kept telling myself, look, if you hate it, you can go back. Nothing is irreversible.

It was a big step because I’m a planner. I didn’t take this lightly.

I’m an expat coach now, so I have women who say, “I want to move to Italy. I’ve never been to Italy. I don’t speak Italian.”

And I’m like, “Girl… red flag.”

Please just visit. Spend as long as you can.

I had done the work, so I knew it wasn’t going to be… I thought it wouldn’t be so much of a culture shock.

So yeah, of course there’s panic when you completely untether yourself from the world. But I always knew it was the right step.

Kat

Great.

So what about everyone around you? Friends and family? Did they have anything to say about this?

How Did Your Friends and Family React?

Su Guillory

I don’t think they were really surprised, just knowing my personality. It was more envy.

Like, “Oh my gosh. Well done. That’s great.”

When you tell people you’re moving to Europe, they’re like, “That’s my dream.”

And I’m like, “So do it.”

But they have a lot of excuses going on. I had no excuses.

My son, I mean, he’s 21 now, but I asked him later, “What did you think?”

He was like, “It’s fine.”

He knew that I loved travel, so it fit well. It wasn’t really an inconvenience. I could either live across the country or across an ocean, which is kind of equal when you’re not close to family physically.

Kat

So what exactly were you looking for? You don’t seem like you’re of retirement age, ready to be fully untethered from the working world.

Were you hoping to find a new career here, or did you come with the idea to do freelance work or be contracted with a company in the U.S.? How did that work for you?

How Did You Plan to Support Yourself After the Move?

Su Guillory

Well, I’ve been a freelance writer for 20 years, so I work from home.

That was the easiest part of any of this. I didn’t need to find an employer here to sponsor me, nor am I even yet comfortable or skilled enough to write professionally in Italian.

I was just able to take my clients with me and keep doing the same work.

I actually got the self-employment visa because this was before the digital nomad visa had been released. That would have been another option.

Everyone told me the self-employment visa was very difficult to get. I got it, so I don’t know how hard it is for other people.

Kat

Great.

Sorry, this is a little bit off topic, but I’m curious. Do you own property there or are you renting?

Do You Own Your Home There or Rent?

Su Guillory

Long story short, I fell in love six months after I came here.

Kat

With a person?

Su Guillory

With a person, yes.

Kat

I was like, “With the house?”

Su Guillory

A country, a man, his family, and now a house.

We moved a year ago, about a year ago now, into the house that he lived in until he was five years old.

Kat

Oh, wow.

Su Guillory

It’s 200 years old.

In Italy, everyone inherits houses from each side of the family. They had this one and were renting it out.

One day I said, “Let’s go take a look at the house.” I was just curious.

We used to live by the sea, and now we’re in the mountains, 15 minutes from the sea.

I saw the view of the sea and thought, “Oh my gosh, this is amazing.”

I was ready to buy an apartment in the beach town, but this is free, beautiful, and a whole different experience.

So yeah, we own this house.

Kat

Fantastic. Wow, that sounds great.

So, first impressions. What was the biggest surprise?

What Sparked the Idea to Move Abroad?

Kat

I guess it was kind of just a new chapter in life. You were coming to this transition phase and looking for something new. But how did this idea ever even get planted to leave the country? It seems like such an extreme step. Most people come to a life transition or become empty nesters, and they might downsize or get a condo or something. It seems like such a big idea. So how did that even come into your head?

Su Guillory

Well, when I was married the first time, we talked about that. After we graduated, we wanted to spend a year or two traveling to different countries and living somewhere for three months, you know, and letting them out.

When that plan kind of got destroyed, I started thinking, oh, I can still do it.

But I really thought about it. I really don’t want to live out of a suitcase for two years. So I thought, okay, of all these places that we had talked about going, where would I want to be?

I think I probably added Italy to the list, and this was maybe before I’d even been. I was like, Italy. Why do I need to live out of a suitcase if I could just plant roots?

I think also, in America, I never really felt like I had strong roots. I grew up in Arkansas. I spent five years in Orlando and then 12 years in San Diego, so I never really felt like I had strong roots.

There was nowhere that I could imagine I wanted to live in the U.S., so that sorted itself out on its own.

Kat

That’s a really fun story. It’s so nice to have that flexibility and freedom of thought to follow this kind of whim of an idea.

But did you ever have any sudden fears or reservations along this journey, whether before you made the move or after you made the move? Did you ever have a moment of panic like, “What am I doing? How did I get down this road?”

Did You Ever Have Doubts or Moments of Panic Along the Way?

Su Guillory

Panic, yes. Regrets, no. Never.

Even when things got… we can get to the “after I got here” stories. But yeah, of course. Is this the right thing?

I just kept telling myself, look, if you hate it, you can go back. Nothing is irreversible.

It was a big step because I’m a planner. I didn’t take this lightly.

I’m an expat coach now, so I have women who say, “I want to move to Italy. I’ve never been to Italy. I don’t speak Italian.”

And I’m like, “Girl… red flag.”

Please just visit. Spend as long as you can.

I had done the work, so I knew it wasn’t going to be… I thought it wouldn’t be so much of a culture shock.

So yeah, of course there’s panic when you completely untether yourself from the world. But I always knew it was the right step.

Kat

Great.

So what about everyone around you? Friends and family? Did they have anything to say about this?

How Did Your Friends and Family React?

Su Guillory

I don’t think they were really surprised, just knowing my personality. It was more envy.

Like, “Oh my gosh. Well done. That’s great.”

When you tell people you’re moving to Europe, they’re like, “That’s my dream.”

And I’m like, “So do it.”

But they have a lot of excuses going on. I had no excuses.

My son, I mean, he’s 21 now, but I asked him later, “What did you think?”

He was like, “It’s fine.”

He knew that I loved travel, so it fit well. It wasn’t really an inconvenience. I could either live across the country or across an ocean, which is kind of equal when you’re not close to family physically.

Kat

So what exactly were you looking for? You don’t seem like you’re of retirement age, ready to be fully untethered from the working world.

Were you hoping to find a new career here, or did you come with the idea to do freelance work or be contracted with a company in the U.S.? How did that work for you?

How Did You Plan to Support Yourself After the Move?

Su Guillory

Well, I’ve been a freelance writer for 20 years, so I work from home.

That was the easiest part of any of this. I didn’t need to find an employer here to sponsor me, nor am I even yet comfortable or skilled enough to write professionally in Italian.

I was just able to take my clients with me and keep doing the same work.

I actually got the self-employment visa because this was before the digital nomad visa had been released. That would have been another option.

Everyone told me the self-employment visa was very difficult to get. I got it, so I don’t know how hard it is for other people.

Kat

Great.

Sorry, this is a little bit off topic, but I’m curious. Do you own property there or are you renting?

Do You Own Your Home There or Rent?

Su Guillory

Long story short, I fell in love six months after I came here.

Kat

With a person?

Su Guillory

With a person, yes.

Kat

I was like, “With the house?”

Su Guillory

A country, a man, his family, and now a house.

We moved a year ago, about a year ago now, into the house that he lived in until he was five years old.

Kat

Oh, wow.

Su Guillory

It’s 200 years old.

In Italy, everyone inherits houses from each side of the family. They had this one and were renting it out.

One day I said, “Let’s go take a look at the house.” I was just curious.

We used to live by the sea, and now we’re in the mountains, 15 minutes from the sea.

I saw the view of the sea and thought, “Oh my gosh, this is amazing.”

I was ready to buy an apartment in the beach town, but this is free, beautiful, and a whole different experience.

So yeah, we own this house.

Kat

Fantastic. Wow, that sounds great.

So, first impressions. What was the biggest surprise?

What Would You Say to Someone Moving There Without Speaking Italian?

Kat

What would you say to somebody who came to any part of Italy, but specifically to your area, without any prior knowledge of Italian? How would they deal with that?

Su Guillory

Study.

Of course, I think if you’re going to live in another country, even if they speak English, it’s respectful to learn as much as you can.

You’ll go a lot further. People are a lot more willing to help you, even if you struggle.

I have an American client. She’s retired. She moved to Siracusa, a beach town. She’s ashamed to make mistakes.

I tell her, look, this will be my biggest lesson. I still make mistakes every day, and I’ve been studying for 13 or 14 years.

Everything with the feminine and masculine forms, the verbs—we have them in French and Italian, and I still mess them up every day. My husband corrects me, and I’m like, “Yeah, okay, whatever.”

You have to make mistakes to learn.

I think that’s the thing. As adults, we don’t like feeling insecure because we can’t communicate. We’re not used to being beginners anymore.

You have to be comfortable being a newbie.

Kat

Yeah. It’s letting go of your ego.

Su Guillory

Exactly.

It’s hard to make friends when your level of speaking is at the point where you’re saying, “Hi… I like…”

But eventually, the more you practice…

I think about the woman who cut my hair today. They speak a dialect in the mountains, and I’m learning it. I’m not great at speaking it, but two years in, I can understand so much more of what she says than I used to.

She doesn’t speak English, so I don’t default to English. I want to speak the language or the dialect and just keep trying.

Start with Duolingo if you have to, but there are a million programs online. Listen to the language. Watch TV. Whatever you can do to immerse yourself and hear the language.

Kat

Great advice.

What Advice Would You Give Someone Considering Moving to Italy?

Kat

If somebody’s watching this and thinking, “This is an interesting idea. This sounds exciting. Maybe I might be interested,” what would you say to them? What would your advice or first step be?

Su Guillory

Visit.

If you can, pick a town and stay for a minimum of a week. Stay three weeks or a month if you can.

The longer you stay in a place… if I say go to a bar—and by “bar” I mean where you go to get coffee—have coffee there every day. Talk to the person making your coffee.

Get to know them because, inevitably, maybe they’ll help you find a rental down the road, or you’ll become friends.

It leads to so many connections.

When you’re not seen as a tourist who’s only there for a couple of days, people see you differently.

If you say, “I want to live here. I want to know the community,” doors start to open.

I think that’s the first step. Do the research and understand that it won’t be a vacation.

Kat

Yeah. In the beginning, yes.

Su Guillory

In the beginning it was.

If you look at the stages of culture shock, the beginning is the honeymoon stage.

Kat

Right. Absolutely. All the tourist things. Eat and drink all the things.

Su Guillory

Then after a while, okay, this is life. I can’t live like this every day.

You settle into a routine, and that’s a little bit different.

But no regrets. It’s a big step, but 100%, it’s worth it.

Kat

Exactly. As you said in the beginning, none of it is undoable.

If anything, you’ve just had a fun adventure.

Is There Anything You Would’ve Done Differently?

Kat

You’ve had this whole big experience. Is there anything you would have done differently or wish you had known from the beginning?

Su Guillory

I wish I had known expat coaches existed.

Around the six- or eight-month mark, I started coming down from the honeymoon phase.

I don’t want to say I was depressed, but I started Googling “expat depression.”

It turns out it’s a real term, and there are expat coaches who help with it.

So I hired one.

I’m actually an expat coach now for this very reason because I’m very self-sufficient. I thought I could do this myself, but not having been an expat before, it’s hard to prepare for all of that.

The range of emotions I was going through caught me completely off guard.

Nobody back in the States could really understand because they would say, “You’re living in Italy. What are you complaining about?”

People here would say, “Really? You moved to another country?” They didn’t understand either.

It was good to have someone I could talk to and someone who helped me think about my goals.

Moving to Italy had been such a huge goal.

Then I got here and thought, “Now what?”

Thinking about the future became really important for me.

That’s something I help my clients with too—not only the logistics of getting here, but also what comes after.

Kat

That’s such an important point.

I’ve been an expat my whole life, and I’ve experienced it in many different iterations.

The season has a big thing to do with it too.

My first introduction to expat life was living in Ireland. When the sun doesn’t come up until 11 a.m. and sets at 3:30 or 4:00, you suddenly realize, “Wait… why am I depressed?” Oh right. There’s no vitamin D.

There are all these things that we don’t realize are different.

I doubt you’re having the sun issue in southern Italy, but there are all these different factors to keep in mind.

Becoming isolated, having that “what next?” feeling, or that panic feeling is absolutely true for every expat I’ve known, even people who’ve spent their whole lives living abroad.

What’s Next for You?

Kat

You mentioned preparing for the future, or at least having some vague idea of what the future might be.

So what is your outlook? Where do you see your future going from here?

Su Guillory

I’ve been asking myself that question lately.

I literally have everything I manifested and wanted.

Now what?

I started making herbal products like skin creams, lip balms, and other things, so I’d like to see where I can take that.

Maybe I’ll focus on navigating a different kind of career.

I’ve always provided services, and now I’m physically making products.

I’m also learning. I have no website. I do no marketing.

It’s all word of mouth, which is really cool and interesting.

The pharmacist texted me the other day and asked, “What is this stuff you’re making? I want one.”

I thought, “How did you hear about it?”

I’d really like to explore what that looks like in a small town and let go of my American expectations of what a business should look like, while embracing what it is here.

Kat

Excellent. Well, thank you. That’s such a good ending note.

Thank you so much for taking the time today, Su. It was so lovely to talk to you.